108 vs 110 lobe separation

I would have to say that your cam choice sounds like a winner to me. A cam with a 112 lobe center will pull approximately 16-20" of vacuum, which is good for power brakes. i have a 4 bolt 351C, stock bore, 10.5 cr with 351C Boss heads ,boss crank and rods. It may not display this or other websites correctly. JavaScript is disabled. However, a cam with 108 will only pull 12-16", which is not enough for power assisted accessories. With the first cam loaded in the engine (the 101 LSA) Westech's Steve Brul made three dyno pulls, the average of which was saved to compare to the next cam. lobe centers and lobe separation are 2 different things . from the intake to the exhaust and vise-versa.Thats why a performance cam will usually have a rougher idle than a stock one. The first cam featured a wide 120-degree LSA, while cam number two narrowed the angle to 112 degrees. When choosing a cam, power gains shouldn't be the only consideration. The balance of midrange torque and top-end horsepower lends this LSA range to the majority of street/strip engines. How To Properly Replace Ignition Coils, Chevy 350 Ignition Coil Location And Everything About Them, Heres What Causes Your Car to Bog Down When Accelerating. Wide LSA cams are also applicable in forced-induction applications where less exhaust overlap is required. I just bought a 86b Webcam and Im using 1.5's. It has been tried in the VW business earlier, but then they gave it up because of problems with too high temperatures around the exhaust valve, causing them them to break. A wider lobe separation angle can often provide more power, but it can also lead to more wear on the engine. by bigjoe1 Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:48 pm, Post 106 LSA: As you know, the intake and exhaust lobes centerline distance is known as lobe separation angle. . Now lets move to the exhaust. Similarly, 110 LSA is also found to be a more fabulous performer in several mechanical aspects. The SAME can be said. If the overlap phase occurs too early, it will create an overly rich condition in the exhaust port, severely decreasing the gas mileage. Moreover, a user from the Chevelle forum said. 110 LSA: On the contrary, at 110 LSA, the engine fails to reach the maximum torque, resulting in a decrease in torque rate. 110 vs. 112 lobe seperarion on a cam - Chevy Message Forum It made 472.4 lb-ft at peak, a 21.5lb-ft disparity from the 101 cam. Contributions la connaissance de la flore du Maroc et de l'Afrique du 554"/577" lift. Generally, naturally aspirated engines run narrower lobe separation angles of around 106 to 108 whereas supercharged, turbo or nitrous engines operate with 112 to 114 and higher. The LSA, or lobe separation angle, is ground into the cam and cannot be changed. This is one of the many reasons why Clay Smith Cams always recommends degreeing your camshaft in using the Lobe Center Method. But that doesnt mean high-strung racing engines cant see gains, as well. Before getting to the cam profiles, we had to make sure we had a reasonable test engine. On the surface, the camshaft's job is simpleopen and close the valvesbut beyond that topical description, it's one of the most mysterious and misunderstood engine components. I forgot to add that poor vacuum is not much of a concern to me because I have no power accessories. Every spec is a road map to what the valves are doing, the most common of which are lift, duration, and lobe-separation angle (LSA)the latter needing the most explanation. Brul spun the engine over with the dyno's starters and recorded 185 psi of cranking compression. So, this LSA is suitable for your engine and its components. This process slows down the reaction rates of the air-fuel mixture, causing temperatures to drop and preventing the engine from overheating. At a lower LSA, the engine reaches the peak of the torque earlier than the standard time but generates a lower RPM.On the contrary, at a higher LSA, the engine reaches the peak torque at a higher resistance level and generates a bulk number of RPM. Our content is merely suggestive, not intended to use without proper safety precautions and advice. Mailbag: Camshaft Lobe Separation, Nitrous Oxide & How They Relate Around 70 percent of muscle-car performance cams fall into this range. The 114 cam will give more low end torque, good midrange, less power up high. These numbers can vary a few inches one way or the other, depending on several other aftermarket factors and your individual engine specifications, so you may want to check your vacuum once the cam is installed. by Kdub Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:20 am, Post The 108-degree cam offered both the most power and torque, but idle quality suffered compared to the wider LSAs. The stock valvesprings supplied with the CNC LS3 heads were swapped out in favor of a set of dual springs from Brian Tooley Racing. Maybe even 114. or just enough to keep the neighbors pissed? BUT, 114 will have more vacuum at idle, which will work better with some fuelinjection. It is the average centerline between both lobes and expressed in degrees ranging from 95 on the extremely narrow/tight side to upward of 120 on the wide end. The 110 is probably a better choice for a performance street engine. All rights reserved. = Tight Below 104 Deg. Since we were only changing the lobe separation angle, we had to make sure every variable (air/fuel, timing, water, air, and oil temps) was identical during testing. My engine shop builds all kinds of hot rod motors, and they told me that because I am running a 4 speed manual, I will better be able to take advantage of the 108 LSA. When boost or nitrous are introduced, and engine builders contemplate choices between single-, dual- or reverse-pattern camshafts then the discussion gets muchmore technical. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Typically, narrower lobe separation develops peak torque at lower rpm and widening the separation tends to build peak torque higher in the rpm range. Camshaft Shootout: Lobe-Separation Angle Tested and Explained - MotorTrend by SStrokerAce Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:38 pm, Post in some cases,, the average torque can equal out. If it occurs too late, it will lean out the cylinder and greatly hinder the performance of the engine. The 234o duration kind of eliminates the RV usage. Okay, have a sigh because you have opened the right door. 110 LSA: You will find the complete opposite scenario here. Armed with more information on camshaft theory, what will you build? to use this representational knowledge to guide current and future action. A cam with a 112 lobe center will idle smoother than a cam with a 110 lobe center. See all 14 photos 13 The three power curves indicate that the wide (120-degree). ( 2 ) Estimated Ship Date: Feb 23, 2023 (if ordered today) Drop Ship. So, the 110 LSA engine is a suitable choice for people prone to be the fan of a powerful engine with mighty acceleration power. It depends on the combination of engine size, head flow and head flow balance, as well as a big one, exhaust flow capabilities. This is why the LS series, and many other modern engines, can make great power on top and bottom with wide LSA camshafts and why a plethora of factory cylinder heads are flowing near (or above) 300 cfm. pump gas, no additive's as well, runs good, i will put the highest octane in, which is 93.. The other thing is that you can make more power with a smaller aftermarket cam. by xstfudonniex Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:21 pm, Post The 108-degree cam offered both the most power and torque, but idle quality suffered compared to the wider LSAs. Post Need some Cam Advice! | Chevy Tri Five Forum The 114 LSA is good for a blower or nitros motor. If two cams are identical with the exception of lobe separation angle (we'll say 108 and 114) the cam with 114LSA will make more low end power than the 108LSA cam? These issues can often be worked through by an advanced tuner, but always present a challenge and compromise in tuning strategy. The absence of engine knocking ensures that your car engine is reasonably combusting the fuel. The Crane has a smoother idle, broader power band, and . I am trying to pick out a hydraulic roller cam for my 351W with AFR 185s. So, sit tight back and explore. We borrowed Westech Performance's shop mule, a 370ci small-block Chevy and its SuperFlow 902 engine dyno and spent a day running each cam back-to-back to gauge its effect on peak horsepower, peak torque, cranking compression, idle vacuum, and the powerband as a wholeall the variables that define an engine's character on the street and track. 106 Vs 110 Lobe Separation Angle: Real Impacts You Must Learn To overcome this inherent problem in wide LSA camshafts, you simply need a higher-flowing intake port. 03 The 4.000-inch crank and 6.125-inch rods were combined with a set of forged asymmetrical pistons from JE. More than any other component, the cam profile determines things like idle quality, mileage, and overall driveability. Lobe Separation Angle, or LSA, is the number of degrees that separate the peak lift points of the cam's intake and exhaust lobes. Defining Lobe Center - Clay Smith Cams Realize what the engine is going in, however, as you may not be able to use the wildest cam out there. But, the internal processings are much more complicated. On larger displacement units 116 to 118 degrees of separation are common. 114 vs 110 lobe sep. on cam | NastyZ28.com A cam with a tighter LSA will require a looser torque converter, may not be able to run vacuum-assisted brakes, and doesn't play nice with fuel injection. I think that cam had 110 lobe sep. Im loking at a summit cam with close to the same lift and duration #s but 114 lobe sep. Exhaust reversion is another undesirable side effect that can be caused by overlap. Like one cam is 112 degree and the next is 108 the 108 cam will allow less "leakage"? Whatever you do, stay under 270 advertised duration and shoot for a 110 lobe separation. 238/248 duration, 300/310 adv. Changing lobe seperation from 110 to 112-14? | For B Bodies Only As a result, you can enjoy a pleasing engine outcome. Many later model engines use wide lobe separation angles to reduce overlap for idle quality and fuel economy. A 112 LSA would be better if I had an automatic, but the engine builder (who has built many, many drag racing engines)told me I would have much faster acceleration with the 108, at the expense of a broader power band of course, but that 108 would not unduly penalize me for the street. I'm sorry to disagree with that incredibly well written article, but lobe separation by itself is absolutely freaking meaningless. 09 All testing was run through a set of 1 3/4-inch long-tube headers and 3-inch exhaust. 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But nothing comes without a cost, and idle vacuum suffers as LSA shrinks. The standard bore block was then stuffed with a 4340 forged steel 4.0-inch crank and 6.125-inch rods, along with a set of flat-top, forged JE pistons. Here are the basics: higher lift values open the valves to increase airflow and longer duration keeps the valves open longer. Is There a Sequence? Either learn to fix it, or learn to write checks. 3.75" stroke= 108 LSA 4.00" stroke= 110 LSA 4.25" stroke= 112 LSA 4.50" stroke= 114 LSA I can see exactly where his theory is coming from. by jobes Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:51 pm, Post Due to the tightness and frequent overlapping of the intake and exhaust valves, the engine cant generate the high RPM as it is supposed to. Lobe seperation cant be seperated from duration,the 2 are connected.the old duntov cam had a lot less duration than many new cams so the valve overlap was not extreme and the engine ran with a gentle lope.Increase the duration by 20* and this cam would shake a 283 out of the car at idle,but then increase the lobe seperation by 4* and the motor will have a gentle lope again. As lobe seperation spreads does the powerband. A wide LSA reduces valve overlap, softens the idle and improves overall drivabilityespecially on the street where performance engines benefit from 112 to 114 LSA. Contrariwise, 106 LSA car engines are the best choice for people seeking energy-efficient cars with moderate engine power. You can research your heads to find out where yours are, but honestly I don't think it will be worth the effort on a tow vehicle. The final cam was tighter still, with a 108-degree LSA. JavaScript is disabled. So, you can enjoy a mighty acceleration power at 110 LSA. In terms of horsepower, the disparity between all three cams was only 6.5 hp, with a scant 100 rpm separating the peaks. 106 LSA: There is a scale of standard cranking compression of the engine. Making this the biggest obstacle to overcome when selecting a cam profile with one of our tech advisors, explaining the definition and importance of the Lobe Center. Your email address will not be published. "Ninety-nine percent of cranking compression is dictated by static compression ratio and intake-valve closing point," said Comp Cams' Billy Godbold. I normally run a 106 to a 108 because I like the "hit" a tighter LC cam has when it come up on the came. 1966 Toyota Landcruiserunder construction. After spending 8 years in plant production engineering, Noah wanted to join Engine Addiction as a key member of all cars specific guides, reviews, repairs, suggestions, and more. Tuning this cam would be slightly more difficult due to the reduced idle vacuum, but it is hard to argue with all the extra power. . so it is a solid flat tappet, torker intake, 1" 4-hole tapered spacer and 750 carb (QFT) transmission is a wide ratio toploader, rear is a 9" 3.89 geared 26"rear tires. A good amount of idle vacuum or increased idle vacuum found at 110 LSA advances the engines efficiency. Knife edged & profiled 4MA Cleveland crank weighing 50lbs. Come join the discussion about restoration, builds, performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Well, there can be different reasons for this problem. . 106 or 110 lobe seperation | Team Chevelle (You can find an instructional video of how to do just that on our Clay Smith Cams YouTube Channel;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57gfBu8uc6k&t=1s ). Anybody do any real testing on LSA in a 3.75 stroke small block chevy?I have always used 104-106 and was thinking about trying a 108 or 110 design.I know there is a lot of variables but just a general opinion from any experts.This is for motor only no nitrous.600-640 HP engine combos.Much appreciated! 110 for sure. Adding an aftermarket cam to an otherwise stock engine can boost output by 40-60 hp (or more) with no other changes (except possibly a valvespring upgrade). If you changed the lobe separation of a street engine from 112 degrees to 106 and didnt do anything else, adds Kaase. 108 vs. 110 lobe separation angle?? - Vintage Mustang Forums Tight lobe separations, such as 108 or shorter, will cause the peak torque to build earlier in the RPM range and peak-out in a short amount of . What happens when you change ONLY. I will be running an Edelbrock Performer RPM, with a Quick Fuel 750cfm with a screw adjustable vacuum secondary; it's called the Pro-vac. Given that nitrous works best in the mid- to upper-rpm range, nitrous-powered engines need a wider lobe separation, like 112 . I'd run it, just be sure to check valve to piston clearance, coil bind and retainer to guide boss/seal clearance. Well get out of that stocker and build a hipo motor for your VW. More over-simplifications: This overlapping has a direct influence on the oil consumption rate of the engine. How to Choose a Camshaft for Street Vehicles - OnAllCylinders whats the difference in how the car will run. On a tight lobe separation, like 106-108 degrees, the engine will build torque quickly and reach its peak early. The only reason I . The article was called "Separation of Power" and they tested 5 cams ranged from 106 to 114 LSA. To further minimize any dyno variations, the engine's oil and water temperatures were kept the same for each pull. It creates an unsteady manifold vacuum condition that, on a fuel-injected engine, confuses manifold air pressure (MAP) sensors, making it hard for them to regulate fueling. The lobe separation angle in a natural car engine conveys a considerable impact, especially regarding the maximum torque. The introduction of Lunati'snew Bootleggerhydraulic series - with its wicked 108-degree lobe-separation angle, fast opening profile and plenty of area under the lift curve - will serve only to fuel the flames on this heated bench-racing topic. (2002) et rappel sur une carte hors texte. Nitrous engines, which make plenty of power and torque, often run wide lobe separation angles to moderate cylinder pressures and temperatures. 112-110 Deg. by ANT Thu May 15, 2003 6:44 pm, Copyright 2022, S&S Motorsports LLC, All Rights Reserved - Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. A wide lobe seperation is not always better than a narrow one, or vise versa. by xstfudonniex Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:24 pm, Post In my opinion, the rougher the idle the better! However, the plentiful exhaust overlap (31 degrees) meant there was lots of exhaust dilution at low engine speed and high vacuum. Lobe Separation Angle "LSA " | Yellow Bullet Forums Hey guys, can anyone tell me how rough of a idle a cam would be with a 108 lobe separation? Is a 108 Lobe Separation 2 Much? | Hot Rod Forum 05 To ensure our stroker combo had sufficient airflow, we installed a set of Chevrolet Performance CNC-ported LS3 heads from Gandrud Chevrolet. Known as "The Gladiator" around Westech Performance, this Dart SHP blockbased, 370ci, small-block Chevy has made thousands of dyno pulls testing all manner of heads, intakes, cams, and every other crazy thing us magazine folk have coerced Westech's Steve Brul to bolt to it. Good luck. A mobile functional near-infrared spectroscopy (fNIRS) was used to record cerebral oxygenation signals in the left prefrontal cortex (LPFC), right prefrontal cortex (RPFC), left parietal lobe (LPL), and right parietal lobe (RPL) and analyze the EC of the cerebral cortex. Cylinder-head flow and LSA are directly related: as a rule of thumb, the better the head flows, the wider the LSA can be. Tests have shown that, for a given cam profile, a tighter (smaller) lobe center will produce more average horsepower and a quicker revving engine. So the wider LSA introduces a broader and therefore longer torque band.. It affects the amount of valve overlap; that is the brief period of time when both the intake and exhaust valves are open. This is ground into the cam and can't be changed without changing cams. We will also custom grind any of the above profiles with a custom lobe center, for an additional $20 dollars. You must log in or register to reply here. Comparison Table Between 106 Vs 110 Lobe Separation Angle.

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